VoIP in Pakistan : On or Off
In August 2002, PTCL blocked access to a selected number of VoIP websites including Net2Phone and MSN voice chat. SPIDER covered the progress on the PTA/PTCL front over the next few months and after tremendous pressure from the ISPs appearing in the press, PTA issued a directive to PTCL permitting the use of Net2Phone starting January 1, 2003. This ban was intact at the time of our going to the press. PTA has issued another directive to PTCL dated January 21, 2003, requesting the company to lift the ban on Net2Phone immediately.
Earlier that day, SPIDER had invited distinguished people from the industry to deliberate the status of the ban on VoIP. Titled 'VoIP: On or Off?', the fourth SPIDER GupShup took place at 11am on 21 January 2003.
PANELIST
V.A.Abidi
Abidi Sahib is Secretary ISPAK. He has extensive background working with computers during his time Air Force where he retired as Air Commodore.
Jehan Ara
Jehan is CEO of Enabling Technologies, a multimedia and Web development company based in Karachi. She has over 20 years experience in Media, Marketing & Communications in the Far East and Pakistan. She is also Vice-President of P@SHA, member of WIT, WITI and MAP.
Wahaj us Siraj
Wahaj us Siraj is CEO Micronet Broadband, Islamabad. Wahaj specializes in telecommunications with emphasis on data communication and IT infrastructure. He has also worked for Align Technology Pakistan where he was involved with projects for the Ministry of Telecom and IT. Wahaj holds a Masters in Engineering from The University of Melbourne, Australia.
Tariq Mustafa
Popularly knows as Tee Emm, is a NED graduate and a telecom engineer by profession. He is a passionate Internet technologist, a web journalist and a proud father. He has been with Supernet since 1997 where he currently spearheads the Internet Technology Department.
Dr. Altamash Kamal
The moderator of the session, Dr. Altamash Kamal is CEO of Xibercom and Executive Editor of SPIDER. Prior to Xibercom, he founded Wavetech - Pakistan's first satellite equipment manufacturing company. He did his undergraduate work at the University of London and he graduate degrees from MIT.
Zunaira Durrani
Currently the Editor at SPIDER, Zunaira Durrani switched from mainstream journalism to the Internet in 2000. She has an Honors and a Masters degree in Mass Communications from Karachi University. Zunaira has recently returned to SPIDER after completing her second Masters at the University of Leeds, UK.
The session begins 11 a.m. Panel meets online and brief intros follow:
Altamash OK people...where do we stand on VoIP? Has PTA gotten PTCL to implement it's decision?
Zunaira Here's the news from PTA Chairman: we have lifted the ban but it cannot be implemented because there are court cases pending.
Altamash And I hear now we have a court case by Fascom and Cybernet...the floor is open for comments.
Abidi The court cases have nothing to do with STM-1.
Zunaira Abidi Sahib can you elaborate on that one?
Abidi Both the court cases pertain to transfer from PIE to IPL
Jehan So then why does it effect PTCL compliance?
Abidi PTA is just making an excuse. In both cases, the plaintiffs had asked for stay against transfer to PIE. It does not involve the blockage.
Jehan So they are just using this as a stalling tactic?
Wahaj We're meeting today with PTA again. They're about to issue a notice to PTCL for not implementing their Determination of 16 November 02. PTA Chairman has agreed to issue a notice to PTCL under Section 31 of Telecom Act.
TM That's good news. The prime issue as I see is the mixing of Internet voice-applications being confused with VoIP technology and the subsequent content filtering taken up by PTCL on its own.
Altamash TM, VoIP in ALL its forms should not be blocked.
Abidi Looks like PTCL is operating without any regulation.
Altamash ISPAK should have gone after PIE/PIX/NAP when Spider made a fuss...but they were happy with assurances.
Wahaj We've been fighting for this since July 2002 at every forum.
TM I tell you, VoIP is a full-fledged technology and Internet Voice Applications are a different animal. Hence, your point is seconded.
Jehan The world is moving towards total open communications - we are moving back?
Altamash Moving back in top gear JEHAN
Zunaira This is deregulation PTA style.
Abidi The real requirement is liberalization more than privatization.
Altamash The requirement is for the GoP and its chamchas...PTA, PTCL to just get out of the way!
Jehan What is the fear in allowing Internet Telephony to continue? loss of revenue to PTCL?
Zunaira PTCL's argument being they are suffering huge losses especially from businessmen who make long distance calls and have now switched over to N2P and MSN.
Jehan Come on get real! How many people who use internet telephony would make long distance calls for same periods of time?
Abidi PTCL, like other despots think THEY are Pakistan, we need to convince them that they are not.
Wahaj We've proved to PTCL and PTA that if less outgoing calls are made from PTCL's network, their international revenue infact increases!
Jehan So should the Post Office and courier companies stop email and online messenger communications?
Abidi That's right.
Jehan And is PTA's role to protect PTCL or us the consumers?
Altamash Having served on the PTCL bOD... they know this is all BS... but go on and on....
Wahaj With the shift of PTA under Cabinet Division to maintain the neutrality of the Regulator, Secretary MOIT has no legal jurisdiction to hear the cases of PTA!
Altamash Exactly Wahaj!
Abidi It boils down that for everything we have to go to courts
Wahaj But Secretary MoIT is bent upon doing this as PTCL listens to him and not to PTA!
Altamash LOL
TM If I were to suggest a one-point-agenda, it would be 'Leave the Internet voice application'. Regulate voice as in telecom but leave the Net as it is.
Abidi Lets then beg the Secretary, it will be great help if we agree.
Wahaj We're not here to beg. We're approaching Cabinet Division to get this sorted out - if not, then the High Court.
Jehan I agree TM - Internet voice should be treated as data communication.
Altamash TM makes a good point...separate termination and Net. What do you all feel about VoIP licenses post 2002? Should such things exist?
Abidi Liberalization, liberalization, if we want the way forward as Micheal Beesley, who de-regulated British Telecom, says.
Wahaj As far as Internet Telephony is concerned, there should be no licensing, for managed VoIP, yes there could be licenses.
TM It is just an application and doesn't come with a QoS. VoIP is a new telecom technology where you can get whatever QoS you wish and hence offer commercial services of toll quality
TM Agree 110% with Wahaj
Abidi We have already submitted a paper on this line as TM says.
Wahaj Why cannot anyone in MoIT tell Secretary MoIT that he has no legal jurisdiction to hear PTA's appeal cases any more? We've already referred this case to MoIT many times! We've not received any reply yet!
Abidi Any gup shup in the Ministry?
Altamash lol@gupshup
TM LOL!
Abidi I want to ask the Forum, what is the position once the monopoly of PTCL has been lost under what rule are they blocking the sites?
Wahaj The official position is roller coaster!
Altamash I want to hear that when the regulator makes a determination its implemented...in this case by PTCL.
Jehan We want to hear if the government is going to continue to allow the blocking of telephony sites
TM :)
Zunaira Seems to be a million dollar question
TM VoIP lets operator better manage their backbone capacities. That's it. Why pull Internet applications in this fuss?
Altamash Why doesn't ISPAK put out ads in newspapers telling users how to get around PTCL's blocking of voice ? I will be happy to write copy...TM and I have talked about this already
Jehan Brilliant idea Altamash!
Abidi Apparently, PTCL is still issuing newspaper notices against anyone try to by-pass the blockage. You are welcome, we are going to float it to our members.
TM Getting around the VoIP ban is one thing, removing the messy ban itself is another..both need to be addressed.
Jehan Yes both need to be addressed.
Altamash Yes to both.
Jehan Doesn't the PTA/PTCL/GoP understand that this is holding us back?
Abidi Self-interest of the PTCL is supreme
Altamash Jehan...its not holding me back...we have worked ways around PTCL and while I am here in Houston, I talk to the office for hours!!
Jehan As I see it, the PTCL monopoly has to go, then this ban on telephony has to go. It has worked in India. Brought phone rates down and made the market more competitive.
TM A prime reason of businesses flocking to India.
Altamash That seems to be the only way these days to get anything done here...to say its been done in India....or to be more politically correct....our eastern neighbor.
Abidi Removal of monopoly has worked every where in the world.
Wahaj This is very interesting - when PTA get the sites blocked in July 02, MOST (then) asked them to open it. When PTA gave a determination in Nov 02 that sites should be unblocked, MOIT (now) is asking them to hold this back!
Jehan So then perhaps now we will get some movement from MOIT and PTA?
Abidi We have also sent the TRAI papers to PTA and Ministry.
Zunaira And the response was?
Abidi No response. Not even thanks.
Altamash At one level GoP is being so utterly stupid.... this is not even a question that requires discussion....VoIP is the present and the future...PTCL wants to compete in the open market...ok baby... let the games begin!!!
Jehan They probably haven't got down to reading them yet the new Minister says he wants to move things along faster
Abidi How fast?
Wahaj It takes few weeks within the Ministry before the orders from new Ministers get down to the Section Officer.
TM The minister needs to be more involved in these issues. We've seen good things happening when Dr Ata was there putting himself around more often
Jehan Well, let's get him involved then! He was very receptive when PASHA met him.
Wahaj The Minister agreed to us in two meetings that Consultant's Reports on Telecom De-regulation would be provided to ISPAK. After 4 weeks of reminders and follow-up, we got a letter from Section Officer that the reports have been placed in PTA's and National Libraries. We contacted them after a week of this letter and both of them didn't have the reports yet.
Jehan Why can't it be made available on the website?
Wahaj They were only available after we sent a reminder to Minister that both libraries didn't have the reports yet! For national security reasons!
Jehan Aaaah!
Altamash lol
TM Also, ISPs can carry-out an informational-cum-advertisement campaign telling the general public that their pipes are being filtered by PTCL. The filters on various URLs, ports,and sites are not public and that they are helpless. Might help putting some get-your-sanity-back pressure on PTCL.
Abidi Looks like the High Court is faster than Ministry.
Jehan We need a movement!!!
Wahaj Movement of files in the Ministry?
Jehan That too!!!
Zunaira For VoIP or just to counter the lags at MoIT? ;)
Jehan Both Zunaira - and not just the IT Ministry.
Abidi Newspaper ads are so expensive that it becomes difficult to beat the GoP.
Wahaj Also, PTCL gets 75% off in the print media advertising - thanks to GoP.
Abidi Spider and Dawn could do better than all of us in informing the public.
TM How about omni-mails sent to all users of all ISPs?
Abidi We have started the campaign.
Altamash I think press ads is the way to go.
Jehan How about using the private TV channels too?
Altamash If only ISPAK members could get their act together…
Abidi Geo gave some time to us and we have invited IndusVision.
Jehan Well those should have been advertised for maximum viewership. This affects the public - perhaps a gupshup session of this kind on TV? ;) ISPAK member active participation is another.
Zunaira So we all agree that maximum airtime and press coverage is one solution?
Altamash I think there is general agreement that VoIP is here to stay...and the current ban is silly... if not illegal and stupid...and the GoP is not playing the role it should...and PTA is ineffectual...So NOW WHAT??
Altamash JEHAN they are too busy fighting among themselves to be effective (ISPAK... sorry Abidi Sahib).
Abidi We are not fighting at all, we are doing the same but monetary constraint is another thing.
TM Well sanity has been prevailing for quite some time now in ISPAK.
Jehan Another thing that is happening across the border too - Internet telephony is allowed but some ISPs are blocking each other's sites.
Wahaj As a last resort, we've to get a High Court Order to ask PTA to get its decision implemented. Also we MoIT should stop interfering in regulatory affairs of PTA after it's shifted to Cabinet Division.
Altamash Why was the court case filed by Cybernet and Fascom....and not ISPAK? Comments?
Zunaira Abidi S. run us through the legalities...
Abidi A trade body needs advocate generals permission to file a case which would have taken a year. We are preparing our case to go to Court in a week and getting a straining order.
Altamash Abidi Sb. the stay order on the cybernet / fascom case may well prevent u…ok folks ... we are out of time (read space in spider for the transcript). Any parting thoughts?
TM Good luck Abdi Sb
Jehan Listen the intention is not to just be critical but to move forward.
Abidi Thank all of you
Altamash OK folks...official end for today.
End -- 12 p.m.
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